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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic Zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic Zone podcast

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episode number

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758 for the 16th of April 2023 Richard

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Saunders coming to you from Sydney

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Australia where the weather is a bit

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overcast and a little bit of rain

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in case you wanted to know what's coming

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up on this week's Show Adrian Hill on

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the high seas a couple of weeks ago

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Adrian set sail on a voyage a cruise

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from Sydney to New Zealand and back and

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discovered all sorts of magical thinking

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and frankly woo on the trip nonsense on

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the high seas with Adrian Hill recorded

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right here in the skeptic Zone Studios

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following that it's another one from the

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archives where I dig up an interview

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from

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2006. I conducted here in Sydney on

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Sydney radio with a wonderful guy by the

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name of Glenn wheeler who has since

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retired more or less from broadcasting

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uh owing to a very unfortunate accident

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more about that later anyway Glenn Glenn

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wheeler would regularly have Skeptics on

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his various radio shows and this one is

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where I discuss TV psychics and Sydney

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Skeptics in the pub which reminds me

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that Sydney Skeptics in the pub

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is almost 20 years old I think it

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started around 2004.

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then to round off the show back to the

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Trove archives and we read a page from

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The Guardian newspaper from Perth

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Western Australia from 1941 where the

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whole page

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is more or less dedicated to the

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Paranormal and the supernatural

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1941 a fascinating Peak back into

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history stay tuned at the end of the

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episode for more important announcements

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from me I think during the episode

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though you'll get a clue as to what I'm

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going to be discussing at the end of the

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episode but now it's time for me to run

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downstairs have a look in the fridge I

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wonder if I have any fish left fish I do

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quite like fish I didn't when I was

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younger you know I really didn't have a

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taste for it but now I love it

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especially uh I guess like many people

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around the world over the last few

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decades have come to love Japanese

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cooking Cuisine very much Sushi sashimi

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and all that sort of stuff while I run

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down and have a look for that I hope you

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[Music]

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you can count on Adrian

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skeptic Zone Studios Adrian Hill it's so

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exciting to be here finally I get to be

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here you're right here at the desk where

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the show is recorded and produced you're

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on your red microphone I'm on the blue

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microphone yes and you've just recorded

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uh the news which you heard um listeners

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would have heard last week yes and what

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we're recording today will go out on the

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next show next week which is the current

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show listeners it all works you know

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this this traveling back and forth in

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time and recording before and everything

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and what we won't do is what I chat to

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you is we won't stop for all of the

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aircraft which are going overhead which

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are legion today I mean I've honestly we

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had to stop every minute yeah what

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should have taken about 15 minutes to

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record took us a lot longer yeah I got

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my I got my producer here it's so much

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nicer to have somebody directing you

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than trying to figure it out yourself I

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don't know about recording there's a lot

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of little details and as the plane goes

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over where's that going I don't care we

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were tracking them earlier Adrian

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wonderful to um to have you here in the

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studio it's very rare I have a guest

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right here yes in the skeptic Zone

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Studios themselves apart from the cats I

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met one of them I met one of them Maude

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before she ran away before she ran away

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now let's get down to it you've just

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come back today in fact you got off your

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cruise you went from Sydney and you

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cruised to New Zealand yes we did

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cruised around and wonderful came back

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to Sydney and uh what can you tell us

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about what you discovered

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well as is typical from my understanding

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on most Cruise Lines there's a lot of

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pseudoscience that happens

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and particularly of course in the spa

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but Oh you mean the like the the

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wellness center The Retreat area yes

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I've seen those on on cruises yes yes so

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that of course the typical things they

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do they they have acupuncture and we had

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some pretty rough Seas uh this time

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around and I usually get seasick very

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easily but I have a lot of medication

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that helps helps me get through it yeah

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and it works very well and of course

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they advertise for seasickness they

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advertise acupuncture as one of the

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treatments they have they list a whole

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bunch of things but one of the things

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with seasickness and my husband and I

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were joking because one night when it

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was really quite rough and they had to

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close the pools down and uh it was the

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probably one of the most Rocky

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experiences I've had you posted a video

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of the pool yes and the waves are in the

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pools yeah splash splash yes exactly and

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that was before it got worse so they

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actually did have to close them down

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eventually and things were wine bottles

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were flying off wine racks and things

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like that so it was it was pretty pretty

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rough and for a change I didn't get

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seasick I'm not sure why it must have

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been the acupuncture it must have been

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the thought of the acupuncture because

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exactly but with our joke that night

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because there weren't as many people in

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the dining room we were like oh okay all

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those people are the ones that went for

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the acupuncture treatment for

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seasickness yes yes because I can't

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imagine it would have worked very well

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but uh yeah no there was uh also

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um

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there was a funny story because my

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husband knows what I do and he went to

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the gym and when you walk through the

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gym you have to go through the spa and

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he after he was done his workout he came

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back and said Adrian you have to go to

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the gym and pay attention when you walk

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through

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because they were advertising a Chinese

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medicine tongue diagnosis oh I've seen

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those yes

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I I've never seen that before well it's

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it's based on the same Principle as

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iridology as

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reflexology and Harriet Hall

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yes uh mentions this in her video series

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it's called a homogelus this is where a

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part of the body or the ear

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and the idea is bits of the body is

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represented correct and if you pass this

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or do this to this part of the body yeah

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yes and there's lots of words such as

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you know yin and yang and all kinds of

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you know it talks about blood stasis and

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liver imbalance and

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I've had a lot of that in my life

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yeah exactly blood deficiencies right

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like anemia and dizziness and um of

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course there's the midline crack which

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can be

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constitutional slash normal there's all

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this stuff it's it's quite interesting

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of course it also talks about things

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like menopause and insomnia and Trauma

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and apparently all this can be diagnosed

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through the tongue the tongue and I

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think one of the things I was really

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interested in is it says that it's this

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diagnosis or this chart that was on

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display in the spa was by somebody named

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Haley staubs and I looked her up and I'm

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ashamed to say she's from Canada from

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Victoria in fact so uh I thought that

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was an interesting thing way down here

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in New Zealand at the time or we were in

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New Zealand here I have something from

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that's why doctors say stick out your

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tongue is it maybe maybe that's what it

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was well and so I I actually when I went

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down I took a picture of this thing and

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as I was walking through one of the spa

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people actually

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said and saw that my interest in all

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this and so she came over and said well

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we're giving away a free eye treatment

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yeah and would you like one and I said

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sure you know why not and what I didn't

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realize and then I actually booked

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because she was amazing it was so

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relaxing she gave this massage it was

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lovely there's nothing wrong with that

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nothing wrong with a massage right and

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the only thing was is

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as my eyes were closed because they put

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these pads on your eyes right to reduce

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the puffiness I guess is what it's

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supposed to do it feels nice it feels

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nice it was wonderful so she takes these

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things off my eyes and there's this

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doctor

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sitting there

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and I got

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the big sell for all kinds of skin

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treatments that I later looked up some

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of them were 3 500 they started at 3500

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US dollars

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and they were FDA approved and I did

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look them up and they are FDA approved

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but they from what I could understand

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and because the internet was so limited

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I couldn't really research it but it

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looked like there wasn't really much

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that was done with these treatments

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they're not going to hurt you well

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they're going to hurt your wallet

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just a little bit so I got the Hard Sell

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um he was very pleasant very nice and

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you know I I listened and you know I

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asked some questions he was a doctor I

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said are you a medical doctor and he I

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think he was a medical doctor but he was

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a little evasive so I'm not 100 sure

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and yeah so anyway I booked because this

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woman was so wonderful with her little

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eye massage I booked a full facial they

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had this deal on that was really

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attractive so I came a couple days later

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and it was wonderful I got up shoulder

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massage and I got uh arm and hand

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massage and a scalp massage and she

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washed my my hair and wow I mean it was

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lovely and no pseudoscience at all she

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didn't try and say anything it was just

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and that's how I think it should be

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right we can enjoy these experiences yes

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we can yeah I've done for example many

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many many years ago I did a couple of

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sessions in the float tank you know I

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wasn't expecting any paranormal or

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spiritual things but it was just a

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simply a very relaxing time exactly and

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if they sold it that way I would think

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people would still come because it was

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wonderful and I I love my experience

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however after I got this I read in the I

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read in the Daily News brief that they

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hand out and what are you on the ship on

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the show all right of course so they

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hand out a little brochure for what you

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can do each day and I hadn't really paid

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much attention to it but I went through

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it before having this interview so I

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have to ask him to put you on the spot

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do I look 10 years younger

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well that's hard for me to say is it I

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mean I've only just met you oh well I've

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00:12:17,810 --> 00:12:15,899
since last week since last week yeah you

274
00:12:19,750 --> 00:12:17,820
know as much as I'd like to say it maybe

275
00:12:22,970 --> 00:12:19,760
two

276
00:12:25,069 --> 00:12:22,980
apparently the treatment that I had was

277
00:12:28,069 --> 00:12:25,079
supposed to make me look 10 years

278
00:12:31,069 --> 00:12:28,079
younger and last up to 10 weeks oh boy

279
00:12:33,170 --> 00:12:31,079
that's that's quite a claim they didn't

280
00:12:35,449 --> 00:12:33,180
tell me that which I appreciated because

281
00:12:37,610 --> 00:12:35,459
I think I would have maybe run away if

282
00:12:39,829 --> 00:12:37,620
they'd started in on that but it was

283
00:12:41,389 --> 00:12:39,839
written in the brochures that were left

284
00:12:42,889 --> 00:12:41,399
in our account I've got I've got a

285
00:12:44,449 --> 00:12:42,899
filter on my phone that can make you

286
00:12:49,310 --> 00:12:44,459
look 10 years younger or 20 years

287
00:12:53,629 --> 00:12:52,129
yeah it was so yeah yeah there we go

288
00:12:55,670 --> 00:12:53,639
there you go

289
00:12:58,009 --> 00:12:55,680
so so one of the other things that they

290
00:13:00,710 --> 00:12:58,019
have the witches apparently FDA approved

291
00:13:02,690 --> 00:13:00,720
is something called cool sculpting

292
00:13:04,910 --> 00:13:02,700
and it's apparently the number one

293
00:13:05,750 --> 00:13:04,920
non-invasive and non-surgical way of

294
00:13:08,810 --> 00:13:05,760
getting

295
00:13:11,329 --> 00:13:08,820
your fat reduction treatment I'll be

296
00:13:12,949 --> 00:13:11,339
right there with no downtime oh even

297
00:13:14,810 --> 00:13:12,959
better

298
00:13:16,910 --> 00:13:14,820
but here's the claim it permanently

299
00:13:19,310 --> 00:13:16,920
removes 20 to 25 percent of your body

300
00:13:22,970 --> 00:13:19,320
fat what yeah

301
00:13:25,490 --> 00:13:22,980
he's checking it he doesn't believe me a

302
00:13:28,370 --> 00:13:25,500
Slimmer you it says yes Goodness Me

303
00:13:30,590 --> 00:13:28,380
There It Is permanently removed 20 to 25

304
00:13:32,569 --> 00:13:30,600
percent of your fat Book for a free

305
00:13:36,530 --> 00:13:32,579
consultation today at the spa on Deck

306
00:13:39,530 --> 00:13:36,540
12. there you go yep that's

307
00:13:41,509 --> 00:13:39,540
that's an outrageous claim that is you

308
00:13:43,490 --> 00:13:41,519
know really is that's an outrageous

309
00:13:44,990 --> 00:13:43,500
claim it is yeah I mean if it didn't

310
00:13:46,850 --> 00:13:45,000
have that I think you could maybe run

311
00:13:49,009 --> 00:13:46,860
with it right but that's that's pretty

312
00:13:51,170 --> 00:13:49,019
specific and going back to the

313
00:13:53,990 --> 00:13:51,180
acupuncture did you know that

314
00:13:57,310 --> 00:13:54,000
acupuncture has been a proven effective

315
00:14:00,110 --> 00:13:57,320
in the treatment of over 500 conditions

316
00:14:02,329 --> 00:14:00,120
goodness yeah

317
00:14:05,269 --> 00:14:02,339
and it's safe and effective apparently

318
00:14:08,569 --> 00:14:05,279
well I know now yes and then there's of

319
00:14:10,490 --> 00:14:08,579
course if you have issues with water

320
00:14:13,310 --> 00:14:10,500
retention and your knees calves or

321
00:14:15,889 --> 00:14:13,320
ankles you can get a revitalizing leg

322
00:14:18,350 --> 00:14:15,899
therapy they are effective ingredients

323
00:14:21,350 --> 00:14:18,360
combined with a lymphatic draining

324
00:14:24,110 --> 00:14:21,360
massage yeah that helps boost the

325
00:14:26,810 --> 00:14:24,120
circulatory system and it expels excess

326
00:14:30,230 --> 00:14:26,820
fluids from the legs and feet only

327
00:14:31,490 --> 00:14:30,240
eighty dollars only 80 U.S US dollars do

328
00:14:34,030 --> 00:14:31,500
they have something for water on the

329
00:14:36,290 --> 00:14:34,040
brain you know what the cure for that is

330
00:14:40,610 --> 00:14:36,300
you do don't you

331
00:14:42,009 --> 00:14:40,620
a tap on the head oh no I actually

332
00:14:45,590 --> 00:14:42,019
didn't know that

333
00:14:49,790 --> 00:14:48,230
oh my goodness oh yeah here's another

334
00:14:51,590 --> 00:14:49,800
one oh they really do like the

335
00:14:54,470 --> 00:14:51,600
acupuncture so here's another one that

336
00:14:56,449 --> 00:14:54,480
they have and it says learn why more and

337
00:14:58,850 --> 00:14:56,459
more people choose acupuncture over

338
00:15:00,829 --> 00:14:58,860
medication that's a that's an

339
00:15:03,350 --> 00:15:00,839
interesting turn of phrase that's

340
00:15:05,930 --> 00:15:03,360
interesting it is isn't it and it's an

341
00:15:07,910 --> 00:15:05,940
amazing it's an amazing effective

342
00:15:09,949 --> 00:15:07,920
treatment for countless conditions such

343
00:15:11,810 --> 00:15:09,959
as back pain sciatica arthritis

344
00:15:15,110 --> 00:15:11,820
indigestion seek sickness that's one I

345
00:15:16,970 --> 00:15:15,120
talked about earlier and weight issues I

346
00:15:18,410 --> 00:15:16,980
guess that's counter to the cold therapy

347
00:15:20,629 --> 00:15:18,420
I don't know I don't know maybe you

348
00:15:23,050 --> 00:15:20,639
could do both yeah so you can have a

349
00:15:27,829 --> 00:15:23,060
life-changing seminar in 20 minutes

350
00:15:29,210 --> 00:15:27,839
on the ship on a ship and oh yes and of

351
00:15:34,449 --> 00:15:29,220
course there's the

352
00:15:37,069 --> 00:15:34,459
24 karat gold micro needling

353
00:15:38,569 --> 00:15:37,079
acupuncture too right no this is

354
00:15:40,790 --> 00:15:38,579
something that's a little much I've seen

355
00:15:43,370 --> 00:15:40,800
it I think online of videos I'm I'm not

356
00:15:44,870 --> 00:15:43,380
100 sure if this is correct but they

357
00:15:46,670 --> 00:15:44,880
have a little roller with needles and

358
00:15:49,189 --> 00:15:46,680
they roll it on your skin and it

359
00:15:51,050 --> 00:15:49,199
punctures little tiny punctures but I

360
00:15:53,750 --> 00:15:51,060
guess it's the 24 karat gold that's more

361
00:15:55,790 --> 00:15:53,760
important wow but I'm sure that that

362
00:15:57,829 --> 00:15:55,800
would not be cheap I did not look up the

363
00:16:00,350 --> 00:15:57,839
price for that and what what does that

364
00:16:02,810 --> 00:16:00,360
do well it's a treatment that delivers

365
00:16:06,530 --> 00:16:02,820
the ultimate results of course for aging

366
00:16:09,650 --> 00:16:06,540
sun damage pigmentation and even tired

367
00:16:11,509 --> 00:16:09,660
dull looking skin so apparently it

368
00:16:14,769 --> 00:16:11,519
hydrates restores rejuvenates and

369
00:16:17,269 --> 00:16:14,779
transform your skin into 24 karat gold

370
00:16:19,189 --> 00:16:17,279
and I'm quoting that that's what they

371
00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:19,199
have I've heard of gold finger but

372
00:16:24,350 --> 00:16:21,600
that's ridiculous

373
00:16:25,550 --> 00:16:24,360
so yeah you can get it you could get a

374
00:16:26,509 --> 00:16:25,560
complimentary

375
00:16:29,389 --> 00:16:26,519
um

376
00:16:32,269 --> 00:16:29,399
uh a complimentary home care kit

377
00:16:34,730 --> 00:16:32,279
apparently if you book that so I I can't

378
00:16:37,009 --> 00:16:34,740
the other one one of the treatments was

379
00:16:39,470 --> 00:16:37,019
3 500 I'm sure that one would be fairly

380
00:16:42,410 --> 00:16:39,480
expensive too 24 karat gold but I don't

381
00:16:45,069 --> 00:16:42,420
know I couldn't find that information I

382
00:16:47,569 --> 00:16:45,079
had to book a consultation

383
00:16:49,009 --> 00:16:47,579
well I mean if they're charging this

384
00:16:50,389 --> 00:16:49,019
sort of money you can only imagine that

385
00:16:52,490 --> 00:16:50,399
every now and then some people would pay

386
00:16:56,389 --> 00:16:52,500
it yeah exactly

387
00:16:58,850 --> 00:16:56,399
I was asked by Rob Palmer if yeah hi Rob

388
00:17:01,790 --> 00:16:58,860
Palmer well the well-known well-known

389
00:17:04,130 --> 00:17:01,800
skeptic and I was asked by him if they

390
00:17:07,010 --> 00:17:04,140
were selling the seasickness bands you

391
00:17:09,230 --> 00:17:07,020
know the pressure yes I've seen and and

392
00:17:11,150 --> 00:17:09,240
for flights oh I've seen those in

393
00:17:12,970 --> 00:17:11,160
airports yeah yeah yeah and there was no

394
00:17:16,549 --> 00:17:12,980
evidence I couldn't find them on board

395
00:17:19,010 --> 00:17:16,559
and in the past on cruises I have seen

396
00:17:21,230 --> 00:17:19,020
real seasickness medication but they

397
00:17:22,549 --> 00:17:21,240
didn't have any of that on display and I

398
00:17:25,429 --> 00:17:22,559
was wondering if it was something to do

399
00:17:28,010 --> 00:17:25,439
with the regulations in New Zealand and

400
00:17:29,510 --> 00:17:28,020
Australia I could be yeah I don't I

401
00:17:32,049 --> 00:17:29,520
really don't know the laws of the sea

402
00:17:34,190 --> 00:17:32,059
when they leave the the the the

403
00:17:35,450 --> 00:17:34,200
Australian Waters I don't know how it

404
00:17:36,950 --> 00:17:35,460
works yeah and I'm sure you could get

405
00:17:38,750 --> 00:17:36,960
that medication from the doctors on

406
00:17:40,549 --> 00:17:38,760
board but it just couldn't buy it over

407
00:17:43,690 --> 00:17:40,559
the counter which I have seen before I

408
00:17:48,049 --> 00:17:43,700
think so but they did have

409
00:17:50,270 --> 00:17:48,059
a little aromatherapy oh yes thing that

410
00:17:52,549 --> 00:17:50,280
you could do for seasickness that's of

411
00:17:54,710 --> 00:17:52,559
course safe for kids and you just dab it

412
00:17:56,270 --> 00:17:54,720
behind the ears and apparently it helps

413
00:17:58,730 --> 00:17:56,280
with seasickness there you go that was

414
00:18:02,029 --> 00:17:58,740
that was the worst I could find

415
00:18:04,750 --> 00:18:02,039
for uh seasickness with but see I guess

416
00:18:07,850 --> 00:18:04,760
the acupuncture really was the worst bed

417
00:18:09,710 --> 00:18:07,860
for the seasickness but the other one

418
00:18:11,690 --> 00:18:09,720
was supposedly safe for kids so that's

419
00:18:14,990 --> 00:18:11,700
it that's all I was able to find with

420
00:18:16,370 --> 00:18:15,000
regards to the bands no no mention I

421
00:18:19,789 --> 00:18:16,380
however

422
00:18:22,010 --> 00:18:19,799
when I was standing at the counter at

423
00:18:24,230 --> 00:18:22,020
the pharmacist because I had to ask for

424
00:18:25,789 --> 00:18:24,240
gravel I don't know remember what the

425
00:18:28,490 --> 00:18:25,799
medical name for that is I know it's

426
00:18:30,169 --> 00:18:28,500
Dramamine in the U.S and gravel in

427
00:18:32,150 --> 00:18:30,179
Canada it's a seasickness medicine oh

428
00:18:35,390 --> 00:18:32,160
okay okay it's an uh I think it's in a

429
00:18:37,370 --> 00:18:35,400
class of antihistamines yeah and

430
00:18:39,350 --> 00:18:37,380
there you have to ask for it over the

431
00:18:40,490 --> 00:18:39,360
counter and they always ask you what do

432
00:18:42,830 --> 00:18:40,500
you want it for because they don't want

433
00:18:44,750 --> 00:18:42,840
you using it for sleeping because it

434
00:18:47,110 --> 00:18:44,760
makes you drowsy okay and I said I'm

435
00:18:51,409 --> 00:18:47,120
going on a cruise and they're like here

436
00:18:55,510 --> 00:18:51,419
there you go and the guy behind me said

437
00:18:58,310 --> 00:18:55,520
to me oh have you tried those bands

438
00:19:01,070 --> 00:18:58,320
yeah so it's like a stranger complete

439
00:19:03,950 --> 00:19:01,080
stranger Yeah Yeah just they work really

440
00:19:06,289 --> 00:19:03,960
well and I did encounter passengers who

441
00:19:08,330 --> 00:19:06,299
were talking about that doesn't surprise

442
00:19:10,370 --> 00:19:08,340
me yeah they would they would find out

443
00:19:12,049 --> 00:19:10,380
that I suffer from seasicknesses oh have

444
00:19:14,630 --> 00:19:12,059
you tried and I like no so Greg would

445
00:19:18,049 --> 00:19:14,640
pipe up he was really good he'd say we

446
00:19:20,930 --> 00:19:18,059
only believe in science-based medicine

447
00:19:22,909 --> 00:19:20,940
well I've heard and I think it's it's

448
00:19:25,070 --> 00:19:22,919
got more to it than than the bands

449
00:19:27,230 --> 00:19:25,080
obviously the ginger apparently is a

450
00:19:29,630 --> 00:19:27,240
great sales systemic there's something

451
00:19:31,789 --> 00:19:29,640
there that can help for nausea yeah I

452
00:19:33,409 --> 00:19:31,799
believe that's the case yeah but if the

453
00:19:36,590 --> 00:19:33,419
seas are bad enough I don't think that's

454
00:19:39,289 --> 00:19:36,600
gonna help me a whole lot so I'm going

455
00:19:42,529 --> 00:19:39,299
with my doctor I mean wow that's quite a

456
00:19:45,110 --> 00:19:42,539
collection of um well to be blunt woo

457
00:19:47,150 --> 00:19:45,120
that you discovered on your trip yes

458
00:19:50,150 --> 00:19:47,160
and we didn't even get into the ones

459
00:19:53,450 --> 00:19:50,160
that we had on the tour we had one tour

460
00:19:57,650 --> 00:19:53,460
operator who told us if you eat

461
00:20:00,370 --> 00:19:57,660
kiwi for two kiwis per day kiwi fruit

462
00:20:02,990 --> 00:20:00,380
kiwi fruits

463
00:20:04,610 --> 00:20:03,000
not the people I'm not the people just

464
00:20:06,850 --> 00:20:04,620
the fruit just the fruit which were

465
00:20:09,470 --> 00:20:06,860
originally called Chinese gooseberries

466
00:20:12,409 --> 00:20:09,480
interesting yeah and they were rebranded

467
00:20:15,710 --> 00:20:12,419
kiwi fruit okay and they're grown in New

468
00:20:18,169 --> 00:20:15,720
Zealand and apparently his mother had

469
00:20:20,630 --> 00:20:18,179
two a day and was able to throw her high

470
00:20:24,130 --> 00:20:20,640
blood pressure medication pills how

471
00:20:27,409 --> 00:20:24,140
about that isn't that something wow

472
00:20:29,289 --> 00:20:27,419
who knew and they have a honey and I've

473
00:20:32,750 --> 00:20:29,299
forgotten the name of it

474
00:20:35,570 --> 00:20:32,760
that's it yes apparently that's

475
00:20:39,350 --> 00:20:35,580
um Fame famous for being counterfeited

476
00:20:40,610 --> 00:20:39,360
oh interesting apparently and I just off

477
00:20:43,909 --> 00:20:40,620
to the top of my head what I've heard

478
00:20:46,610 --> 00:20:43,919
there's a lot of um fake Manuka Honey ah

479
00:20:47,870 --> 00:20:46,620
I'm not surprised well apparently this

480
00:20:50,390 --> 00:20:47,880
fellow

481
00:20:52,850 --> 00:20:50,400
put it in his coffee every single

482
00:20:54,370 --> 00:20:52,860
morning and he hasn't been sick for 29

483
00:20:58,810 --> 00:20:54,380
years

484
00:21:04,090 --> 00:20:58,820
right as Dr Eva would say

485
00:21:08,390 --> 00:21:07,070
okay so you know smoking I guess is good

486
00:21:09,950 --> 00:21:08,400
for you too I don't know must be good

487
00:21:12,350 --> 00:21:09,960
for you too if he hasn't been that's it

488
00:21:13,909 --> 00:21:12,360
that's it that's that's the secret it

489
00:21:15,190 --> 00:21:13,919
count maybe the honey counteracts of

490
00:21:17,570 --> 00:21:15,200
smoking

491
00:21:19,310 --> 00:21:17,580
what a trip yeah it was a wonderful trip

492
00:21:22,190 --> 00:21:19,320
I mean you had a great trip regardless

493
00:21:24,710 --> 00:21:22,200
of all the woo we had a great trip and I

494
00:21:27,049 --> 00:21:24,720
enjoyed my experience in the spa even

495
00:21:30,409 --> 00:21:27,059
though there was all this stuff around

496
00:21:32,450 --> 00:21:30,419
me it was a wonderful experience and uh

497
00:21:36,049 --> 00:21:32,460
all the people I met were really really

498
00:21:37,789 --> 00:21:36,059
great the staff was amazing and the

499
00:21:39,529 --> 00:21:37,799
countries oh my goodness well first

500
00:21:42,830 --> 00:21:39,539
Sydney it was starting off in Sydney

501
00:21:45,830 --> 00:21:42,840
yeah loved our 10 days here and the uh

502
00:21:48,110 --> 00:21:45,840
the two islands of New Zealand beautiful

503
00:21:49,789 --> 00:21:48,120
stunning great people yeah yeah

504
00:21:51,289 --> 00:21:49,799
wonderful but surely the high the

505
00:21:54,830 --> 00:21:51,299
highlight of the whole tour was being

506
00:21:56,390 --> 00:21:54,840
interviewed by Maynard surely oh I think

507
00:21:58,549 --> 00:21:56,400
that's a close second to being in the

508
00:22:00,590 --> 00:21:58,559
studio of the skeptical podcast there

509
00:22:02,330 --> 00:22:00,600
you go well Adrian again what what a

510
00:22:04,669 --> 00:22:02,340
pleasure it is and I'm glad we got to

511
00:22:07,010 --> 00:22:04,679
meet up again yes uh because you're me

512
00:22:08,810 --> 00:22:07,020
too you're in town only for not even 24

513
00:22:12,770 --> 00:22:08,820
hours not even 24 hours yeah then you're

514
00:22:15,770 --> 00:22:12,780
off again but uh for now from the uh the

515
00:22:18,289 --> 00:22:15,780
very table at the skeptic Zone Studio

516
00:22:20,210 --> 00:22:18,299
Adrian Hill thank you very much well

517
00:22:22,430 --> 00:22:20,220
thank you so much for inviting me it's

518
00:22:25,909 --> 00:22:22,440
been so fun to meet you in person and

519
00:22:29,430 --> 00:22:25,919
you guys have treated me royally I must

520
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:42,409
[Music]

521
00:22:47,690 --> 00:22:44,690
hello everyone Adrian Hill from Canada

522
00:22:50,029 --> 00:22:47,700
here for those of you who would love an

523
00:22:53,330 --> 00:22:50,039
excuse to visit Calgary besides the

524
00:22:55,789 --> 00:22:53,340
maple syrup and mountains the Western

525
00:22:58,610 --> 00:22:55,799
Canadian reason or we can reason

526
00:23:01,909 --> 00:22:58,620
conference is happening May 5th and 6th

527
00:23:05,770 --> 00:23:01,919
we have a great lineup of both local and

528
00:23:10,549 --> 00:23:08,450
we have science communicator and secular

529
00:23:13,549 --> 00:23:10,559
activist Aaron Raw

530
00:23:14,750 --> 00:23:13,559
host of the que drops podcast Courtney

531
00:23:17,110 --> 00:23:14,760
heard

532
00:23:19,370 --> 00:23:17,120
host of the divorcing religion podcast

533
00:23:21,590 --> 00:23:19,380
Janice Selby

534
00:23:24,230 --> 00:23:21,600
co-host of the squaring the strange

535
00:23:25,130 --> 00:23:24,240
podcast and clever caricaturist Celestia

536
00:23:27,169 --> 00:23:25,140
Ward

537
00:23:29,090 --> 00:23:27,179
hosts of The Thinking Atheist podcast

538
00:23:31,789 --> 00:23:29,100
Seth Andrews

539
00:23:35,210 --> 00:23:31,799
noted pancake eating expert Richard

540
00:23:38,330 --> 00:23:35,220
Saunders I'm so excited he's coming and

541
00:23:40,730 --> 00:23:38,340
me Adrian Hill

542
00:23:43,070 --> 00:23:40,740
and now Richard besides eating pancakes

543
00:23:45,110 --> 00:23:43,080
and Real Canadian maple syrup what do

544
00:23:48,909 --> 00:23:45,120
you plan to do at the conference

545
00:23:52,490 --> 00:23:48,919
well if I'm not too full from pancakes

546
00:23:56,570 --> 00:23:52,500
we might be at the hotel Creek Friday

547
00:23:59,570 --> 00:23:56,580
May 5 at 6 PM that's Calgary time for

548
00:24:02,570 --> 00:23:59,580
registration and fun Celestia will be

549
00:24:04,549 --> 00:24:02,580
drawing all your beautiful faces Lois

550
00:24:08,270 --> 00:24:04,559
Edwards and Adrian will be holding a

551
00:24:11,690 --> 00:24:08,280
trivia competition and I might be

552
00:24:14,510 --> 00:24:11,700
bending a spoon or three because good

553
00:24:19,909 --> 00:24:14,520
things happen in threes and folding some

554
00:24:22,690 --> 00:24:19,919
paper into Pegasus and Magic rabbits

555
00:24:24,890 --> 00:24:22,700
check out the website at

556
00:24:28,010 --> 00:24:24,900
www.weekanresen.com for more information

557
00:24:30,110 --> 00:24:28,020
on speakers hotel and activities

558
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:30,120
hope to see you there or you might be

559
00:24:34,789 --> 00:24:32,210
you know sorry

560
00:24:36,270 --> 00:24:34,799
[Music]

561
00:24:51,230 --> 00:24:36,280
foreign

562
00:24:56,270 --> 00:24:54,049
[Music]

563
00:24:58,669 --> 00:24:56,280
when I started being a skeptic here in

564
00:25:01,070 --> 00:24:58,679
Australia and I started appearing on the

565
00:25:03,950 --> 00:25:01,080
media television and radio one of the

566
00:25:05,750 --> 00:25:03,960
people I would regularly contact and who

567
00:25:09,110 --> 00:25:05,760
would regularly have me as a guest was

568
00:25:12,230 --> 00:25:09,120
the radio and TV presenter Glenn wheeler

569
00:25:14,149 --> 00:25:12,240
now very unfortunately for everyone

570
00:25:18,230 --> 00:25:14,159
concerned Glenn wheeler was involved in

571
00:25:21,529 --> 00:25:18,240
a motor scooter accident in 2015 and

572
00:25:23,810 --> 00:25:21,539
this meant he was unable really to

573
00:25:26,330 --> 00:25:23,820
continue in his broadcasting career

574
00:25:29,090 --> 00:25:26,340
however in the year 2021 Glenn was

575
00:25:32,330 --> 00:25:29,100
awarded the order of Australia medal for

576
00:25:36,470 --> 00:25:32,340
his media career and charity work now

577
00:25:39,230 --> 00:25:36,480
Glenn was at heart a skeptic and I

578
00:25:42,950 --> 00:25:39,240
remember once many years ago bringing

579
00:25:45,169 --> 00:25:42,960
him the book by Ian Roland the full

580
00:25:49,010 --> 00:25:45,179
facts book of cold reading which he

581
00:25:51,289 --> 00:25:49,020
devoured and after then for a while on

582
00:25:55,250 --> 00:25:51,299
his late night radio show he would give

583
00:25:57,409 --> 00:25:55,260
fake psychic readings to show people uh

584
00:26:01,430 --> 00:25:57,419
how some of the tricks worked

585
00:26:04,190 --> 00:26:01,440
here from the year as far as I can best

586
00:26:07,490 --> 00:26:04,200
determine because I don't have a label

587
00:26:08,350 --> 00:26:07,500
on the recording I think it was from the

588
00:26:12,590 --> 00:26:08,360
year

589
00:26:14,690 --> 00:26:12,600
2006. I appeared on uh one of Glenn's

590
00:26:17,990 --> 00:26:14,700
radio programs it could have been a late

591
00:26:23,930 --> 00:26:18,000
night program when he was on the radio

592
00:26:29,870 --> 00:26:26,750
Skeptics in the pub and other things and

593
00:26:33,310 --> 00:26:29,880
it's fascinating to hear that although

594
00:26:42,310 --> 00:26:33,320
this was not too far from 20 years ago

595
00:26:47,330 --> 00:26:45,289
the decorative finds a skeptic as a

596
00:26:49,909 --> 00:26:47,340
person who questions the truth of a

597
00:26:52,010 --> 00:26:49,919
particular fact or Theory

598
00:26:53,690 --> 00:26:52,020
and only concrete evidence based on

599
00:26:55,970 --> 00:26:53,700
science will ever convince them of what

600
00:26:57,710 --> 00:26:55,980
lies behind life's little Mysteries

601
00:27:00,289 --> 00:26:57,720
Richard Saunders is the founder of

602
00:27:01,730 --> 00:27:00,299
Sydney Skeptics in the pub now they're a

603
00:27:05,690 --> 00:27:01,740
group of each once a month to discuss

604
00:27:08,029 --> 00:27:05,700
and an unravel Mysteries and joins us on

605
00:27:10,310 --> 00:27:08,039
the line there hello Richard

606
00:27:11,630 --> 00:27:10,320
nice to talk to you again it said it's

607
00:27:12,409 --> 00:27:11,640
been a little while since we've had a

608
00:27:14,510 --> 00:27:12,419
chat

609
00:27:16,010 --> 00:27:14,520
it's been a while yeah the hell how

610
00:27:20,149 --> 00:27:16,020
would you uh how would you describe a

611
00:27:25,909 --> 00:27:22,789
for opinions on the universe life all

612
00:27:27,769 --> 00:27:25,919
sorts of things upon good evidence and

613
00:27:29,210 --> 00:27:27,779
is not afraid to have that evidence

614
00:27:31,010 --> 00:27:29,220
challenged

615
00:27:33,110 --> 00:27:31,020
I suppose that sums it up yeah okay

616
00:27:35,269 --> 00:27:33,120
because as a skeptic

617
00:27:39,169 --> 00:27:35,279
um correct me if I'm wrong here but uh

618
00:27:41,090 --> 00:27:39,179
you know you and your cohorts have long

619
00:27:43,610 --> 00:27:41,100
had a standing sort of arrangement that

620
00:27:46,370 --> 00:27:43,620
you'll put money up to to have people

621
00:27:48,890 --> 00:27:46,380
prove you wrong well absolutely it's

622
00:27:50,810 --> 00:27:48,900
more to prove their claims right and we

623
00:27:52,909 --> 00:27:50,820
don't we don't care what the claim is if

624
00:27:55,730 --> 00:27:52,919
they can claim they can talk to the dead

625
00:27:57,649 --> 00:27:55,740
or bend a spoon or use astrology to

626
00:27:59,870 --> 00:27:57,659
predict this that or the other we say

627
00:28:01,850 --> 00:27:59,880
great fine if you can prove it under

628
00:28:04,850 --> 00:28:01,860
mutually agreed conditions to an

629
00:28:07,370 --> 00:28:04,860
independent umpire not only will we be

630
00:28:08,930 --> 00:28:07,380
ecstatically happy because it will be a

631
00:28:11,570 --> 00:28:08,940
major breakthrough in science that we

632
00:28:14,269 --> 00:28:11,580
will reward them with large sums of

633
00:28:16,070 --> 00:28:14,279
money I've seen um and probably many of

634
00:28:18,289 --> 00:28:16,080
us have seen those shows like John

635
00:28:19,789 --> 00:28:18,299
Edwards crossing over and

636
00:28:22,130 --> 00:28:19,799
um those sorts of shows where you say

637
00:28:23,390 --> 00:28:22,140
yeah people speak to the dead yeah but

638
00:28:25,010 --> 00:28:23,400
where they get a whole lot of people in

639
00:28:26,630 --> 00:28:25,020
a room and it looks quite impressive

640
00:28:28,549 --> 00:28:26,640
when it's all happening but

641
00:28:30,049 --> 00:28:28,559
I have seen on occasions where they've

642
00:28:31,669 --> 00:28:30,059
done that behind the scenes and shown

643
00:28:33,470 --> 00:28:31,679
how they've and I suppose the show has

644
00:28:35,450 --> 00:28:33,480
been done by groups like yours you know

645
00:28:38,269 --> 00:28:35,460
skipping who have shown how they've set

646
00:28:41,090 --> 00:28:38,279
it all up and basically done done a bit

647
00:28:43,070 --> 00:28:41,100
of a survey and a full uh research

648
00:28:45,289 --> 00:28:43,080
exercise on the audience pretty much

649
00:28:46,490 --> 00:28:45,299
before the show starts so that they've

650
00:28:48,230 --> 00:28:46,500
actually got all the information that

651
00:28:50,029 --> 00:28:48,240
they want before they start so that it

652
00:28:51,710 --> 00:28:50,039
looks like it's all Happening by chance

653
00:28:54,350 --> 00:28:51,720
but really it's happening by a good

654
00:28:56,269 --> 00:28:54,360
organization that's partly what happens

655
00:28:58,610 --> 00:28:56,279
at some events

656
00:29:00,529 --> 00:28:58,620
that's not really necessary because a

657
00:29:03,289 --> 00:29:00,539
good cold reader and that's the brand of

658
00:29:06,230 --> 00:29:03,299
magic these people use uh can literally

659
00:29:08,570 --> 00:29:06,240
come to an audience without having any

660
00:29:10,490 --> 00:29:08,580
knowledge about them whatsoever and do

661
00:29:12,529 --> 00:29:10,500
the same their mentalism routine and

662
00:29:14,029 --> 00:29:12,539
Magic it's called and people walk away

663
00:29:15,649 --> 00:29:14,039
saying that's incredible how could they

664
00:29:17,330 --> 00:29:15,659
have known that I'm amazed they must

665
00:29:19,190 --> 00:29:17,340
have contact with the afterlife the

666
00:29:21,649 --> 00:29:19,200
problem is that you can learn this from

667
00:29:22,909 --> 00:29:21,659
a book and when you do you can do it

668
00:29:25,850 --> 00:29:22,919
yourself we have people in our

669
00:29:27,830 --> 00:29:25,860
organization who can floor you

670
00:29:30,049 --> 00:29:27,840
absolutely floor you with their mystical

671
00:29:31,970 --> 00:29:30,059
amazing insights to your dead relatives

672
00:29:34,190 --> 00:29:31,980
or whatever because they know how the

673
00:29:35,870 --> 00:29:34,200
tricks work give us uh give us a bit of

674
00:29:37,850 --> 00:29:35,880
insight into that because

675
00:29:39,769 --> 00:29:37,860
um you obviously have been looking into

676
00:29:41,389 --> 00:29:39,779
this for quite some time and uh probably

677
00:29:43,070 --> 00:29:41,399
a bit of an expert in your own in your

678
00:29:47,230 --> 00:29:43,080
own way you'd be able to tell us exactly

679
00:29:49,610 --> 00:29:47,240
how it happened cold cold read me

680
00:29:51,409 --> 00:29:49,620
I can give you an example I saw on the

681
00:29:53,149 --> 00:29:51,419
on the on the uh the TV the other day

682
00:29:55,909 --> 00:29:53,159
part of the problem is now you're

683
00:29:57,769 --> 00:29:55,919
expecting a trick a cold reading the

684
00:30:00,230 --> 00:29:57,779
ideal situation is for a sitter to come

685
00:30:02,210 --> 00:30:00,240
along fully expecting a psychic reading

686
00:30:04,190 --> 00:30:02,220
uh most of the time these people are

687
00:30:06,590 --> 00:30:04,200
sold on the idea even before they set 40

688
00:30:08,870 --> 00:30:06,600
into the tent or the The Big Show where

689
00:30:12,169 --> 00:30:08,880
these people do their stuff but when I

690
00:30:14,090 --> 00:30:12,179
saw the other night on the TV was uh the

691
00:30:16,730 --> 00:30:14,100
the so-called psychic said to the

692
00:30:18,950 --> 00:30:16,740
audience and remember what you see on TV

693
00:30:20,630 --> 00:30:18,960
is only the edited sections where they

694
00:30:22,370 --> 00:30:20,640
actually get it right 80 of the time

695
00:30:24,769 --> 00:30:22,380
they just ask questions that go nowhere

696
00:30:26,570 --> 00:30:24,779
so they drop all the uh the other stuff

697
00:30:27,950 --> 00:30:26,580
that's not relevant out so it's not

698
00:30:29,510 --> 00:30:27,960
relevant so the way they've asked a

699
00:30:31,610 --> 00:30:29,520
question or they've made a comment to

700
00:30:33,710 --> 00:30:31,620
say um you know your grandmother died

701
00:30:35,389 --> 00:30:33,720
three weeks ago and the and the person

702
00:30:37,690 --> 00:30:35,399
said no that's not true my grandmother's

703
00:30:47,930 --> 00:30:37,700
very well thanks

704
00:30:52,669 --> 00:30:50,450
diet a few years ago yes that's it it's

705
00:30:55,010 --> 00:30:52,679
all right now she that's that's how that

706
00:30:57,049 --> 00:30:55,020
works although uh one as I said I saw on

707
00:30:58,549 --> 00:30:57,059
the TV they said uh there's something

708
00:30:59,750 --> 00:30:58,559
about the pillows something under the

709
00:31:03,350 --> 00:30:59,760
pillow and the people in the audience

710
00:31:05,450 --> 00:31:03,360
were amazed because they leave roses on

711
00:31:07,130 --> 00:31:05,460
the pillow but putting something near a

712
00:31:09,889 --> 00:31:07,140
pillow of a loved one or under a pillow

713
00:31:12,289 --> 00:31:09,899
in any constant context isn't isn't that

714
00:31:13,250 --> 00:31:12,299
uh unusual have you always been a

715
00:31:15,529 --> 00:31:13,260
skeptic

716
00:31:17,630 --> 00:31:15,539
uh when I was a kid in primary school

717
00:31:19,850 --> 00:31:17,640
and sort of in high school I loved

718
00:31:21,169 --> 00:31:19,860
hearing about monsters in ESP and UFOs

719
00:31:24,529 --> 00:31:21,179
and that was the 70s and everybody

720
00:31:26,450 --> 00:31:24,539
thought UFOs were coming every day and I

721
00:31:28,190 --> 00:31:26,460
loved it so much that I did my research

722
00:31:29,810 --> 00:31:28,200
and the more I researched the more I

723
00:31:31,610 --> 00:31:29,820
found out that when these things were

724
00:31:34,250 --> 00:31:31,620
investigated and investigated the

725
00:31:36,169 --> 00:31:34,260
evidence really came up flimsy crummy or

726
00:31:38,690 --> 00:31:36,179
non-existent but people kept believing

727
00:31:41,029 --> 00:31:38,700
so in a way I'm still looking for that

728
00:31:42,889 --> 00:31:41,039
great evidence because I I would really

729
00:31:44,389 --> 00:31:42,899
want the hope that there's lots of

730
00:31:45,710 --> 00:31:44,399
strange and weird things out there I

731
00:31:47,630 --> 00:31:45,720
find that fascinating yeah well

732
00:31:49,430 --> 00:31:47,640
yesterday on the program I spoke with

733
00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:49,440
Tim the year we met and we spoke about

734
00:31:53,149 --> 00:31:52,080
ghosts and haunted places and all that

735
00:31:55,909 --> 00:31:53,159
sort of stuff and it was all very

736
00:31:59,029 --> 00:31:55,919
exciting do you find those sorts of

737
00:32:01,669 --> 00:31:59,039
things very much uh you know in the mind

738
00:32:04,570 --> 00:32:01,679
and 100 in the mind or have you actually

739
00:32:07,010 --> 00:32:04,580
ever experienced any sort of uh

740
00:32:09,289 --> 00:32:07,020
supernatural phenomena yourself

741
00:32:11,990 --> 00:32:09,299
no I haven't and not through lack of

742
00:32:14,810 --> 00:32:12,000
trying I've actually been on three or

743
00:32:16,450 --> 00:32:14,820
four losing count ghost tours official

744
00:32:19,310 --> 00:32:16,460
ghost tours and I've been on a real

745
00:32:21,830 --> 00:32:19,320
haunted ghost investigation where I was

746
00:32:24,289 --> 00:32:21,840
called in to a school in fact that was

747
00:32:26,450 --> 00:32:24,299
supposedly haunted unfortunately nothing

748
00:32:29,389 --> 00:32:26,460
absolutely nothing paranormal at all

749
00:32:31,549 --> 00:32:29,399
happened that's not to say that I'm

750
00:32:33,529 --> 00:32:31,559
ruling out ghosts altogether now if I

751
00:32:34,909 --> 00:32:33,539
was a cynic if I was an armchair cynic

752
00:32:36,110 --> 00:32:34,919
and I said these things aren't real I

753
00:32:37,909 --> 00:32:36,120
don't want to believe in it I wouldn't

754
00:32:40,250 --> 00:32:37,919
go out and investigate and I love to

755
00:32:42,049 --> 00:32:40,260
investigate because you know I might be

756
00:32:43,549 --> 00:32:42,059
wrong and if I'm wrong I really want to

757
00:32:45,950 --> 00:32:43,559
know about it it's funny though because

758
00:32:48,950 --> 00:32:45,960
I've felt the story of many times that

759
00:32:51,649 --> 00:32:48,960
um years ago long long time ago I had my

760
00:32:53,570 --> 00:32:51,659
palm read by a palm reader in a

761
00:32:55,970 --> 00:32:53,580
restaurant in Brisbane and I was up

762
00:32:58,010 --> 00:32:55,980
there with a bunch of people who didn't

763
00:33:00,289 --> 00:32:58,020
know me very well and certainly the palm

764
00:33:02,090 --> 00:33:00,299
reader did not know me at all

765
00:33:03,769 --> 00:33:02,100
and I was in another life in another

766
00:33:07,130 --> 00:33:03,779
time doing another job and all that sort

767
00:33:10,130 --> 00:33:07,140
of stuff and I swore and that she read

768
00:33:12,230 --> 00:33:10,140
my term brilliantly in fact so much so I

769
00:33:13,970 --> 00:33:12,240
was scared because I walked away from

770
00:33:15,830 --> 00:33:13,980
this woman thinking my God how did she

771
00:33:16,909 --> 00:33:15,840
know all this and yet probably when I

772
00:33:20,149 --> 00:33:16,919
think back to some of the things that

773
00:33:22,789 --> 00:33:20,159
she said at the time it was that generic

774
00:33:25,610 --> 00:33:22,799
um would you call it cold reading it

775
00:33:27,169 --> 00:33:25,620
could be but please and and I would hope

776
00:33:28,730 --> 00:33:27,179
that people out there don't get the

777
00:33:31,370 --> 00:33:28,740
wrong impression of the Skeptics or

778
00:33:33,529 --> 00:33:31,380
myself I don't rule out the possibility

779
00:33:35,330 --> 00:33:33,539
of psychic activity or that your your

780
00:33:37,610 --> 00:33:35,340
palm reader was in fact getting messages

781
00:33:39,590 --> 00:33:37,620
from a source Beyond science I don't

782
00:33:42,409 --> 00:33:39,600
rule that out I can't rule that out but

783
00:33:44,269 --> 00:33:42,419
I really do insist on seeing good proper

784
00:33:45,470 --> 00:33:44,279
evidence but that's part of the part of

785
00:33:47,570 --> 00:33:45,480
the fun I think

786
00:33:49,789 --> 00:33:47,580
um and also there are so there's also

787
00:33:51,769 --> 00:33:49,799
that issue of the placebo effect that we

788
00:33:53,750 --> 00:33:51,779
often talk about in in situations like

789
00:33:55,669 --> 00:33:53,760
this where if it feels good if somebody

790
00:33:57,470 --> 00:33:55,679
wants to go along and pay money to have

791
00:33:59,810 --> 00:33:57,480
their Palm red tarot cards or whatever

792
00:34:01,909 --> 00:33:59,820
or or have a conversation with somebody

793
00:34:04,310 --> 00:34:01,919
who's passed on

794
00:34:06,169 --> 00:34:04,320
um isn't that probably worth their while

795
00:34:07,850 --> 00:34:06,179
to do that if they feel good yeah it

796
00:34:10,250 --> 00:34:07,860
depends on how you look at it at the end

797
00:34:11,930 --> 00:34:10,260
of the day if they're paying money for a

798
00:34:13,790 --> 00:34:11,940
service and in this case let's say the

799
00:34:16,250 --> 00:34:13,800
service the service being paid for is

800
00:34:17,450 --> 00:34:16,260
talking to the dead because that's why

801
00:34:20,149 --> 00:34:17,460
they're there that's why they're paying

802
00:34:21,829 --> 00:34:20,159
their money and that's not is what's uh

803
00:34:23,389 --> 00:34:21,839
rendered what is rendered is a trick or

804
00:34:26,030 --> 00:34:23,399
it's called grading or it's not talking

805
00:34:27,649 --> 00:34:26,040
to the dead then that's consumer affairs

806
00:34:29,690 --> 00:34:27,659
that's a rip-off right you're not

807
00:34:31,430 --> 00:34:29,700
getting what you paid for but I'm not

808
00:34:32,990 --> 00:34:31,440
saying that those people they walk away

809
00:34:33,889 --> 00:34:33,000
yeah they can feel better about just a

810
00:34:35,270 --> 00:34:33,899
bit out of the proof whether you're

811
00:34:36,710 --> 00:34:35,280
getting this whether the service is

812
00:34:39,530 --> 00:34:36,720
being delivered or isn't it yeah it's

813
00:34:40,730 --> 00:34:39,540
very and that's one of the things we'd

814
00:34:42,290 --> 00:34:40,740
like to try and do

815
00:34:44,089 --> 00:34:42,300
you've got more chance of being able to

816
00:34:45,349 --> 00:34:44,099
measure a politician promise than being

817
00:34:46,730 --> 00:34:45,359
able to tell whether they've got in

818
00:34:48,109 --> 00:34:46,740
touch with your dead grandmother now

819
00:34:49,149 --> 00:34:48,119
there are some things we just don't ask

820
00:34:51,710 --> 00:34:49,159
studies

821
00:34:53,810 --> 00:34:51,720
well let's knock down there what made

822
00:34:57,950 --> 00:34:53,820
you set up uh the Sydney Skeptics in the

823
00:35:00,710 --> 00:34:57,960
pub partly because it's good

824
00:35:06,050 --> 00:35:02,690
a millions and UFOs and talking to the

825
00:35:08,630 --> 00:35:06,060
dead and uh in a nice relaxed situation

826
00:35:11,030 --> 00:35:08,640
and it's also to give other people who

827
00:35:12,829 --> 00:35:11,040
think we're rat bags and lunatics and

828
00:35:14,870 --> 00:35:12,839
and I don't know what they think about

829
00:35:17,450 --> 00:35:14,880
us gives them the opportunity to come

830
00:35:19,849 --> 00:35:17,460
along sit down have a good chin wag with

831
00:35:21,290 --> 00:35:19,859
us and and suffer down and if they still

832
00:35:24,230 --> 00:35:21,300
think we're at bags and loonies they're

833
00:35:27,250 --> 00:35:24,240
entitled to their opinion and we offer

834
00:35:30,290 --> 00:35:27,260
Sydney's only free spoon bending lessons

835
00:35:31,849 --> 00:35:30,300
ah so so go along and learn how to bend

836
00:35:38,870 --> 00:35:31,859
spoons and you have to provide your own

837
00:35:42,050 --> 00:35:40,790
've been so we provide students and we

838
00:35:44,030 --> 00:35:42,060
teach everything

839
00:35:45,890 --> 00:35:44,040
it was quite funny and the last one we

840
00:35:47,510 --> 00:35:45,900
had people lined up all their spoons and

841
00:35:49,670 --> 00:35:47,520
by the end of the night everybody could

842
00:35:51,230 --> 00:35:49,680
bend spoons like Yuri gillery Gallery

843
00:35:53,270 --> 00:35:51,240
I'll never forget Yuri Geller on the

844
00:35:54,950 --> 00:35:53,280
dodline show yes

845
00:35:56,630 --> 00:35:54,960
one of the Great Moments of Television

846
00:35:59,030 --> 00:35:56,640
that's exactly right there was another

847
00:36:01,790 --> 00:35:59,040
bloke too remember uh Rudy somebody or

848
00:36:03,349 --> 00:36:01,800
other James James Randy that was the

849
00:36:04,790 --> 00:36:03,359
bloke the Donley got up and tipped a

850
00:36:06,370 --> 00:36:04,800
glass of water and said pick this off

851
00:36:09,829 --> 00:36:06,380
out of here or something he wasn't happy

852
00:36:13,210 --> 00:36:09,839
I'll never forget that uh now all the

853
00:36:18,710 --> 00:36:15,890
www.skeptics.com.edu uh it's 6 p.m

854
00:36:21,310 --> 00:36:18,720
upstairs grab your dinner grab a drink

855
00:36:22,970 --> 00:36:21,320
and we'll get into the spoons fantastic

856
00:36:24,109 --> 00:36:22,980
uh and you don't have to worry about

857
00:36:26,210 --> 00:36:24,119
bringing spoons because you'll Supply

858
00:36:27,470 --> 00:36:26,220
the spoons as well very good good to

859
00:36:29,390 --> 00:36:27,480
catch up with you again Richard thanks

860
00:36:31,190 --> 00:36:29,400
for that thanks Glenn all right Richard

861
00:36:34,250 --> 00:36:31,200
uh Saunders there the founder of

862
00:36:36,530 --> 00:36:34,260
Skeptics in the pub and uh if you would

863
00:36:38,210 --> 00:36:36,540
like to go and find out more and partake

864
00:36:40,130 --> 00:36:38,220
in one of their little discussions then

865
00:36:48,220 --> 00:36:40,140
you can join them

866
00:36:54,109 --> 00:36:51,410
[Music]

867
00:36:57,710 --> 00:36:54,119
hi this is Susan gerbrick from gsow

868
00:36:59,210 --> 00:36:57,720
that's gorilla skepticism on Wikipedia I

869
00:37:01,730 --> 00:36:59,220
want to thank everyone who via the

870
00:37:04,310 --> 00:37:01,740
skeptic Zone podcast has contacted me to

871
00:37:06,770 --> 00:37:04,320
become an editor on Wikipedia together

872
00:37:08,810 --> 00:37:06,780
we have worked on or created thousands

873
00:37:10,490 --> 00:37:08,820
of Wikipedia pages with countless

874
00:37:13,730 --> 00:37:10,500
thousands of people from all over the

875
00:37:16,130 --> 00:37:13,740
world accessing those pages each day

876
00:37:19,430 --> 00:37:16,140
in fact we are approaching 200 million

877
00:37:21,589 --> 00:37:19,440
page views like many listeners I also

878
00:37:23,750 --> 00:37:21,599
get back to the skeptic Zone podcast via

879
00:37:26,210 --> 00:37:23,760
monthly micro payments and I want to

880
00:37:28,010 --> 00:37:26,220
encourage you to do the same is the

881
00:37:30,410 --> 00:37:28,020
information and entertainment you get

882
00:37:33,230 --> 00:37:30,420
each week from the show worth five or

883
00:37:35,690 --> 00:37:33,240
ten dollars a month I sure think it is

884
00:37:38,329 --> 00:37:35,700
just click the link at skepticzone.tv

885
00:37:39,230 --> 00:37:38,339
and show your practical support thank

886
00:37:47,140 --> 00:37:39,240
you

887
00:37:58,690 --> 00:37:52,790
[Music]

888
00:38:06,010 --> 00:38:01,130
now it's time once again to look into

889
00:38:10,490 --> 00:38:08,990
trove.nla.gov dot a u your online

890
00:38:12,230 --> 00:38:10,500
resource from the Australian government

891
00:38:14,650 --> 00:38:12,240
and the National Library of Australia

892
00:38:18,170 --> 00:38:14,660
and as we discovered last week

893
00:38:20,030 --> 00:38:18,180
the service will continue after

894
00:38:25,250 --> 00:38:20,040
receiving new funding from the

895
00:38:30,589 --> 00:38:28,490
and of course this is the digital Trove

896
00:38:33,410 --> 00:38:30,599
the Treasure Trove of digitized

897
00:38:35,270 --> 00:38:33,420
newspapers and magazines and so on going

898
00:38:36,410 --> 00:38:35,280
back to Australian history fully

899
00:38:38,930 --> 00:38:36,420
searchable

900
00:38:43,130 --> 00:38:38,940
and in the Trove segment I normally look

901
00:38:44,630 --> 00:38:43,140
up a psychic paranormal topic something

902
00:38:48,550 --> 00:38:44,640
to do with the

903
00:38:51,589 --> 00:38:48,560
the general idea of the skeptic Zone

904
00:38:53,270 --> 00:38:51,599
and I was searching for this week I was

905
00:38:54,890 --> 00:38:53,280
searching for psychic animals and

906
00:38:58,130 --> 00:38:54,900
psychic dogs and cats and things like

907
00:39:00,290 --> 00:38:58,140
that and I came across a page in a

908
00:39:04,970 --> 00:39:00,300
newspaper called The Guardian published

909
00:39:07,910 --> 00:39:04,980
on the 14th of February 1941 and almost

910
00:39:11,270 --> 00:39:07,920
the whole page there's only four pages

911
00:39:14,569 --> 00:39:11,280
in this publication but the whole page

912
00:39:16,150 --> 00:39:14,579
forward appears to be is almost

913
00:39:18,260 --> 00:39:16,160
dedicated to

914
00:39:23,770 --> 00:39:18,270
psychic phenomena

915
00:39:29,089 --> 00:39:25,910
so let's take a look at some of the

916
00:39:32,750 --> 00:39:29,099
stories making news in the guardian from

917
00:39:34,970 --> 00:39:32,760
Perth Western Australia in 1941.

918
00:39:36,650 --> 00:39:34,980
well apart from anything psychic we have

919
00:39:41,170 --> 00:39:36,660
some interesting advertisements on the

920
00:39:44,329 --> 00:39:41,180
page we have Clan oat cake biscuits

921
00:39:46,730 --> 00:39:44,339
with any kind of drink that look quite

922
00:39:49,430 --> 00:39:46,740
yummy but we have an advertisement here

923
00:39:50,270 --> 00:39:49,440
saying hundreds of men admit it's the

924
00:39:53,630 --> 00:39:50,280
best

925
00:39:57,349 --> 00:39:53,640
seven pound seven suit they've ever had

926
00:39:59,930 --> 00:39:57,359
made you can get a suit for seven pounds

927
00:40:03,050 --> 00:39:59,940
and seven oh No in fact you can get the

928
00:40:05,930 --> 00:40:03,060
suit for three pounds 19 and six

929
00:40:07,550 --> 00:40:05,940
what a deal you can also get some

930
00:40:10,609 --> 00:40:07,560
custard there's a

931
00:40:14,329 --> 00:40:10,619
a little commercial here for custard or

932
00:40:17,390 --> 00:40:14,339
a bottle of rainers tomato sauce

933
00:40:21,109 --> 00:40:17,400
jelly crystals we have here we have

934
00:40:25,130 --> 00:40:21,119
looks like sausages and small Goods

935
00:40:27,290 --> 00:40:25,140
and Swan lager beer

936
00:40:30,290 --> 00:40:27,300
that's a lot of advertisement on this

937
00:40:33,190 --> 00:40:30,300
page but there is also a lot to do with

938
00:40:36,290 --> 00:40:33,200
psychic news here we go

939
00:40:39,410 --> 00:40:36,300
psychic science Alice makes her own

940
00:40:41,750 --> 00:40:39,420
psychic Wonderland on this page from

941
00:40:44,390 --> 00:40:41,760
week to week a published authentic local

942
00:40:47,390 --> 00:40:44,400
and other evidence of the continuity of

943
00:40:50,150 --> 00:40:47,400
life and the reality of a life Hereafter

944
00:40:52,910 --> 00:40:50,160
the moral religious or scientific

945
00:40:55,370 --> 00:40:52,920
inferences to be drawn from this

946
00:40:58,250 --> 00:40:55,380
evidence are for every reader to draw

947
00:41:01,370 --> 00:40:58,260
for him or herself and then it says in

948
00:41:03,349 --> 00:41:01,380
quotes facts are Childs that win a ding

949
00:41:05,990 --> 00:41:03,359
and I think that's a Scottish expression

950
00:41:09,230 --> 00:41:06,000
I'm not sure maybe listeners know that

951
00:41:12,589 --> 00:41:09,240
one it is rational to face facts since

952
00:41:15,530 --> 00:41:12,599
facts affect our Outlook our conduct and

953
00:41:19,609 --> 00:41:15,540
our character building Here and Now what

954
00:41:21,790 --> 00:41:19,619
a man knows and knows is in capital he

955
00:41:25,609 --> 00:41:21,800
takes into consideration

956
00:41:29,150 --> 00:41:25,619
men know thyself is a common sense

957
00:41:32,329 --> 00:41:29,160
injunction and in this particular it is

958
00:41:34,609 --> 00:41:32,339
certainly not true that quote where

959
00:41:38,329 --> 00:41:34,619
ignorance is bliss it is folly to be

960
00:41:39,230 --> 00:41:38,339
wise end quote make of that what you

961
00:41:41,630 --> 00:41:39,240
will

962
00:41:45,950 --> 00:41:41,640
and after that Preamble we get to the

963
00:41:47,930 --> 00:41:45,960
story Alice Bell Kirby a 13 year old

964
00:41:50,390 --> 00:41:47,940
American Girl became a sensation

965
00:41:53,030 --> 00:41:50,400
overnight because of psychic phenomena

966
00:41:54,890 --> 00:41:53,040
that occurred in her presence many

967
00:41:57,650 --> 00:41:54,900
American newspapers carried stories

968
00:42:01,609 --> 00:41:57,660
about her and she was featured on the

969
00:42:04,609 --> 00:42:01,619
radio Joseph dungier the magician who

970
00:42:07,270 --> 00:42:04,619
has for years thrown out wild challenges

971
00:42:10,069 --> 00:42:07,280
to mediums to get publicity for himself

972
00:42:12,290 --> 00:42:10,079
refused an offer of twenty thousand

973
00:42:16,490 --> 00:42:12,300
dollars if he could duplicate her

974
00:42:20,569 --> 00:42:16,500
phenomena in this girl's presence tables

975
00:42:23,930 --> 00:42:20,579
move without contact a piano has slid

976
00:42:26,930 --> 00:42:23,940
across the room the medium and other

977
00:42:29,510 --> 00:42:26,940
sitters have been levitated while

978
00:42:32,510 --> 00:42:29,520
blindfolded she has read and answered

979
00:42:35,750 --> 00:42:32,520
written questions and the room has

980
00:42:38,569 --> 00:42:35,760
vibrated to such an extent that the

981
00:42:41,150 --> 00:42:38,579
furniture rattled goodness me I would

982
00:42:44,630 --> 00:42:41,160
have like to have seen that

983
00:42:46,790 --> 00:42:44,640
now Eric E Montgomery who has been in

984
00:42:49,849 --> 00:42:46,800
close contact with the girl all her life

985
00:42:52,849 --> 00:42:49,859
and who has studied her phenomena has

986
00:42:55,910 --> 00:42:52,859
disclosed to the Journal of the American

987
00:42:59,150 --> 00:42:55,920
Society for psychical research and

988
00:43:02,809 --> 00:42:59,160
astonishing Seance at which the table

989
00:43:06,829 --> 00:43:02,819
was levitated in broad daylight in the

990
00:43:09,650 --> 00:43:06,839
open air in the presence of seven people

991
00:43:13,250 --> 00:43:09,660
The Walking Table

992
00:43:15,770 --> 00:43:13,260
the girl was demonstrating her psychic

993
00:43:19,010 --> 00:43:15,780
powers to these people at her home when

994
00:43:23,630 --> 00:43:19,020
the table she was using walked or

995
00:43:25,390 --> 00:43:23,640
bounced onto a porch down the steps and

996
00:43:29,870 --> 00:43:25,400
across the lawn at the back of the house

997
00:43:34,490 --> 00:43:29,880
then it traversed 200 yards across a

998
00:43:38,089 --> 00:43:34,500
meadow to a pan and up a sloping drive

999
00:43:39,710 --> 00:43:38,099
to the secondary story of the barn and

1000
00:43:43,790 --> 00:43:39,720
boggles the mind

1001
00:43:46,910 --> 00:43:43,800
next Alice Bell said quote sit me down

1002
00:43:50,150 --> 00:43:46,920
end quote and the spectators saw her

1003
00:43:54,290 --> 00:43:50,160
lifted more than two feet off the floor

1004
00:43:56,630 --> 00:43:54,300
turn around and seated gently onto the

1005
00:43:59,210 --> 00:43:56,640
table which then bounced across the

1006
00:44:01,670 --> 00:43:59,220
floor with her sitting on it at another

1007
00:44:04,370 --> 00:44:01,680
Seance at the home of a friend there was

1008
00:44:07,609 --> 00:44:04,380
the levitation not only of the medium

1009
00:44:10,490 --> 00:44:07,619
but of James the ten-year-old son of one

1010
00:44:13,849 --> 00:44:10,500
sitter Alice Bell took hold of his hand

1011
00:44:16,370 --> 00:44:13,859
and lifted him up together with herself

1012
00:44:18,710 --> 00:44:16,380
to the top of the table on another

1013
00:44:22,190 --> 00:44:18,720
occasion she was lifted to the top of a

1014
00:44:25,569 --> 00:44:22,200
second table placed on the first

1015
00:44:30,170 --> 00:44:25,579
this is all sounding like a an amazing

1016
00:44:32,450 --> 00:44:30,180
amazing adventure surprise for Inquirer

1017
00:44:36,410 --> 00:44:32,460
the last setting that Montgomery

1018
00:44:39,170 --> 00:44:36,420
attended was early last year 1940 when

1019
00:44:42,349 --> 00:44:39,180
Alice Bell was blindfolded by a man who

1020
00:44:45,170 --> 00:44:42,359
submitted a dozen written questions the

1021
00:44:47,210 --> 00:44:45,180
medium rewrote and correctly answered

1022
00:44:49,970 --> 00:44:47,220
the questions telling the investigator

1023
00:44:52,670 --> 00:44:49,980
his correct age the number of children

1024
00:44:56,150 --> 00:44:52,680
in his family how many of them were boys

1025
00:44:57,890 --> 00:44:56,160
and how many were girls and their

1026
00:45:00,290 --> 00:44:57,900
correct ages

1027
00:45:03,349 --> 00:45:00,300
she also told him the number of his

1028
00:45:06,410 --> 00:45:03,359
wife's brothers and sisters their ages

1029
00:45:10,010 --> 00:45:06,420
and which of them were living and which

1030
00:45:13,309 --> 00:45:10,020
Dead all the other sitters were asked to

1031
00:45:17,510 --> 00:45:13,319
leave the room and while this man held

1032
00:45:20,329 --> 00:45:17,520
her hands the girl was raised in the air

1033
00:45:22,970 --> 00:45:20,339
to the top of the table

1034
00:45:26,089 --> 00:45:22,980
this young girl seems to like being

1035
00:45:28,370 --> 00:45:26,099
levitated on top of many tables after

1036
00:45:31,130 --> 00:45:28,380
the investigator had left the others

1037
00:45:33,970 --> 00:45:31,140
held a seance on their own the table

1038
00:45:37,250 --> 00:45:33,980
slid right across the room to a wall

1039
00:45:40,250 --> 00:45:37,260
raised itself into the air as high as

1040
00:45:43,190 --> 00:45:40,260
anyone could reach appeared to float and

1041
00:45:46,670 --> 00:45:43,200
then be pulled back by some magnetic

1042
00:45:48,109 --> 00:45:46,680
force across the room and came down

1043
00:45:50,390 --> 00:45:48,119
again

1044
00:45:51,829 --> 00:45:50,400
what is it about tables running around

1045
00:45:56,030 --> 00:45:51,839
like this

1046
00:45:58,970 --> 00:45:56,040
there was a what not in the corner

1047
00:46:01,250 --> 00:45:58,980
covered with small articles many of them

1048
00:46:03,530 --> 00:46:01,260
were transferred and placed in the

1049
00:46:06,170 --> 00:46:03,540
sitter's hands Montgomery was thinking

1050
00:46:09,410 --> 00:46:06,180
all the time that it might not be

1051
00:46:12,410 --> 00:46:09,420
genuine as no article had been placed in

1052
00:46:15,050 --> 00:46:12,420
his hands when he felt something nudging

1053
00:46:17,630 --> 00:46:15,060
against his hands on the table he picked

1054
00:46:21,109 --> 00:46:17,640
it up and found it was the largest vase

1055
00:46:23,809 --> 00:46:21,119
in the room or of ours yes depending on

1056
00:46:26,150 --> 00:46:23,819
how you pronounce that then someone took

1057
00:46:28,970 --> 00:46:26,160
his watch from his pocket and said he

1058
00:46:30,890 --> 00:46:28,980
wanted to make a test he altered the

1059
00:46:33,770 --> 00:46:30,900
time of the watch and put it on the

1060
00:46:37,069 --> 00:46:33,780
table asking that it should be rewound

1061
00:46:39,109 --> 00:46:37,079
and correctly reset all the cities held

1062
00:46:41,690 --> 00:46:39,119
hands around the table they heard the

1063
00:46:43,490 --> 00:46:41,700
watch Being rewound and afterwards they

1064
00:46:46,309 --> 00:46:43,500
found it had been reset to the correct

1065
00:46:48,050 --> 00:46:46,319
time and fully wound

1066
00:46:50,450 --> 00:46:48,060
of course we can't know what really

1067
00:46:53,150 --> 00:46:50,460
happened during all this but I certainly

1068
00:46:54,950 --> 00:46:53,160
remember James Randy doing

1069
00:46:57,290 --> 00:46:54,960
um a Conjuring trick where he could

1070
00:46:59,150 --> 00:46:57,300
change the time on watches

1071
00:47:01,250 --> 00:46:59,160
Spirit feet in the dark

1072
00:47:04,790 --> 00:47:01,260
at one sitting when eight women were

1073
00:47:08,089 --> 00:47:04,800
present a spirit voice asked them all to

1074
00:47:10,130 --> 00:47:08,099
take off their rings and put them in a

1075
00:47:13,010 --> 00:47:10,140
pile on the table the lights were

1076
00:47:16,690 --> 00:47:13,020
extinguished and in the dark every ring

1077
00:47:19,010 --> 00:47:16,700
was replaced on the finger of its owner

1078
00:47:21,290 --> 00:47:19,020
thousands of people have witnessed the

1079
00:47:24,230 --> 00:47:21,300
psychic phenomena occurring through this

1080
00:47:27,410 --> 00:47:24,240
girl's mediumship she gives her seances

1081
00:47:30,829 --> 00:47:27,420
Montgomery says more to please her

1082
00:47:32,270 --> 00:47:30,839
friends and guests than from any desire

1083
00:47:34,430 --> 00:47:32,280
to become famous

1084
00:47:37,430 --> 00:47:34,440
she discovered her powers nearly three

1085
00:47:40,089 --> 00:47:37,440
years ago when as a chance from a game

1086
00:47:43,309 --> 00:47:40,099
of dominoes she and some friends

1087
00:47:46,790 --> 00:47:43,319
experimented with a table as she had

1088
00:47:50,030 --> 00:47:46,800
seen her grandmother do her grandmother

1089
00:47:52,849 --> 00:47:50,040
was also a psychic and experienced table

1090
00:47:56,150 --> 00:47:52,859
phenomena the girl found that the table

1091
00:47:58,550 --> 00:47:56,160
would move with no apparent cause and

1092
00:48:01,550 --> 00:47:58,560
the other phenomena followed Alice

1093
00:48:03,530 --> 00:48:01,560
Bell's mother was a Baptist the girl

1094
00:48:04,670 --> 00:48:03,540
claims that all her demonstrations take

1095
00:48:07,010 --> 00:48:04,680
place with

1096
00:48:10,010 --> 00:48:07,020
Spirit help

1097
00:48:12,710 --> 00:48:10,020
wow I mean wouldn't it be good if this

1098
00:48:16,190 --> 00:48:12,720
was true you can imagine how it would be

1099
00:48:18,349 --> 00:48:16,200
convenient for furniture removalists

1100
00:48:22,490 --> 00:48:18,359
and here's the next story on the page

1101
00:48:24,349 --> 00:48:22,500
psychic animals and that's why uh this

1102
00:48:26,210 --> 00:48:24,359
page came up in my search when I was

1103
00:48:27,890 --> 00:48:26,220
searching for psychic cats and dogs and

1104
00:48:30,170 --> 00:48:27,900
things like that

1105
00:48:32,210 --> 00:48:30,180
psychic animals proof that domestic

1106
00:48:35,450 --> 00:48:32,220
animals are psychic is to be found in

1107
00:48:38,690 --> 00:48:35,460
the fact that a few are killed or

1108
00:48:40,370 --> 00:48:38,700
injured in Air Raids a bomb which fell

1109
00:48:43,329 --> 00:48:40,380
in one home district and that's

1110
00:48:47,270 --> 00:48:43,339
referring to uh to England

1111
00:48:50,510 --> 00:48:47,280
practically demolished an animal first

1112
00:48:54,470 --> 00:48:50,520
aid post Rescuers feared for the safety

1113
00:48:56,510 --> 00:48:54,480
of a dog who was taking shelter but he

1114
00:49:00,710 --> 00:48:56,520
was all right they found him merrily

1115
00:49:03,770 --> 00:49:00,720
wagging his tail amidst the ruins an ARP

1116
00:49:05,809 --> 00:49:03,780
animal guard states that though in her

1117
00:49:08,569 --> 00:49:05,819
District cats continued to walk the

1118
00:49:11,210 --> 00:49:08,579
streets during the bombardment she is

1119
00:49:12,650 --> 00:49:11,220
not heard of one being injured by

1120
00:49:15,910 --> 00:49:12,660
shrapnel

1121
00:49:19,370 --> 00:49:15,920
and we have another story here white fox

1122
00:49:22,250 --> 00:49:19,380
remarkable tests to newspaper editor

1123
00:49:24,770 --> 00:49:22,260
Maurice bobanau or bar battle I think

1124
00:49:27,470 --> 00:49:24,780
it's pronounced the editor of psychic

1125
00:49:30,650 --> 00:49:27,480
news published in London records his

1126
00:49:33,950 --> 00:49:30,660
remarkable and interesting test of the

1127
00:49:36,530 --> 00:49:33,960
work of white fox well known because

1128
00:49:40,250 --> 00:49:36,540
well publicized in England as the spirit

1129
00:49:42,349 --> 00:49:40,260
guide of Kenneth hilbrey a young man who

1130
00:49:45,829 --> 00:49:42,359
has been one of the most famous of

1131
00:49:49,130 --> 00:49:45,839
England's psychics barbanell records

1132
00:49:52,069 --> 00:49:49,140
that he had made three requests to White

1133
00:49:54,890 --> 00:49:52,079
Fox all associated with people who were

1134
00:49:57,109 --> 00:49:54,900
missing quite unexpectedly he

1135
00:50:00,829 --> 00:49:57,119
volunteered some information which at

1136
00:50:02,510 --> 00:50:00,839
the time I could not understand two

1137
00:50:06,829 --> 00:50:02,520
friends of mine were sitting with

1138
00:50:09,109 --> 00:50:06,839
Kenneth hilbrey when white fox asked

1139
00:50:10,250 --> 00:50:09,119
them to take down his message and give

1140
00:50:14,150 --> 00:50:10,260
it to me

1141
00:50:16,750 --> 00:50:14,160
there is a boy here his name is Bobby he

1142
00:50:20,030 --> 00:50:16,760
is a sailor and passed on the courageous

1143
00:50:24,050 --> 00:50:20,040
and we assumed that's possibly the name

1144
00:50:27,050 --> 00:50:24,060
of a vessel and indeed a quick look HMS

1145
00:50:29,870 --> 00:50:27,060
courageous World War One era British

1146
00:50:32,569 --> 00:50:29,880
warship later rebuilt as an aircraft

1147
00:50:34,910 --> 00:50:32,579
carrier well there you go he comes

1148
00:50:37,309 --> 00:50:34,920
across because he wants his mother to

1149
00:50:39,710 --> 00:50:37,319
know his brother is safe his brother's

1150
00:50:42,710 --> 00:50:39,720
name is Clifford Clifford is a prisoner

1151
00:50:45,349 --> 00:50:42,720
but he has not passed over there will be

1152
00:50:48,349 --> 00:50:45,359
news of him before the end of this month

1153
00:50:51,770 --> 00:50:48,359
Bobby sends his love to his mother the

1154
00:50:54,170 --> 00:50:51,780
message ended with a request to me not

1155
00:50:56,329 --> 00:50:54,180
to lose the snapshot of Bobby's brother

1156
00:50:58,549 --> 00:50:56,339
the notes were read to me in the morning

1157
00:51:02,630 --> 00:50:58,559
after the sitting but I shook my head

1158
00:51:05,809 --> 00:51:02,640
saying I do not know what white fox is

1159
00:51:08,329 --> 00:51:05,819
talking about a few moments later I left

1160
00:51:11,210 --> 00:51:08,339
for the office when I opened my mail

1161
00:51:14,329 --> 00:51:11,220
there I found a letter from Mrs Ada

1162
00:51:15,290 --> 00:51:14,339
Jackson of dagenham of whom I have never

1163
00:51:18,349 --> 00:51:15,300
heard

1164
00:51:22,609 --> 00:51:18,359
she wrote I hope you will pardon my

1165
00:51:25,609 --> 00:51:22,619
asking you for help in my desperation

1166
00:51:28,670 --> 00:51:25,619
I am the mother of two sons the youngest

1167
00:51:31,309 --> 00:51:28,680
Bob died in the courageous and now the

1168
00:51:33,650 --> 00:51:31,319
other has been missing since Dunkirk I

1169
00:51:36,349 --> 00:51:33,660
cannot stand this suspense much more

1170
00:51:39,470 --> 00:51:36,359
not knowing whether my boy is dead or

1171
00:51:42,770 --> 00:51:39,480
alive the Red Cross and the war office

1172
00:51:45,549 --> 00:51:42,780
do not know please can you help me I

1173
00:51:48,170 --> 00:51:45,559
enclose a photo of my boy which may help

1174
00:51:50,930 --> 00:51:48,180
attached to the letter was the snapshot

1175
00:51:53,630 --> 00:51:50,940
when I read the letter writes barbanell

1176
00:51:56,690 --> 00:51:53,640
I knew that white fox had supplied me

1177
00:51:59,770 --> 00:51:56,700
with a remarkable Spirit test Mrs

1178
00:52:03,650 --> 00:51:59,780
Jackson is unknown to my friends

1179
00:52:06,410 --> 00:52:03,660
who had the sitting and is a complete

1180
00:52:08,870 --> 00:52:06,420
stranger to Kenneth hilbrey

1181
00:52:13,730 --> 00:52:08,880
while I wonder what the real story was

1182
00:52:15,950 --> 00:52:13,740
there and it just reminds us of how in

1183
00:52:19,490 --> 00:52:15,960
Wartime in the first world war and the

1184
00:52:22,730 --> 00:52:19,500
second world war especially that many uh

1185
00:52:25,609 --> 00:52:22,740
many desperate and um desperately

1186
00:52:28,910 --> 00:52:25,619
worried parents and husbands and wives

1187
00:52:31,010 --> 00:52:28,920
and so on were beside themselves not

1188
00:52:34,309 --> 00:52:31,020
knowing whether their loved ones were

1189
00:52:37,910 --> 00:52:34,319
dead or alive and here's the next story

1190
00:52:40,490 --> 00:52:37,920
on this page police consult psychic one

1191
00:52:45,049 --> 00:52:40,500
of the most famous psychics in Canada

1192
00:52:47,930 --> 00:52:45,059
Canada use Reverend E Hudson who never

1193
00:52:50,630 --> 00:52:47,940
had any schooling in his powers but

1194
00:52:52,910 --> 00:52:50,640
quote suddenly became aware of his

1195
00:52:55,730 --> 00:52:52,920
ability to psychically read and write

1196
00:52:57,730 --> 00:52:55,740
end quote Hudson following in the wake

1197
00:52:59,690 --> 00:52:57,740
of others with psyching gifts

1198
00:53:04,010 --> 00:52:59,700
established a church in the district

1199
00:53:07,430 --> 00:53:04,020
where quote ignorance is bliss unquote

1200
00:53:10,250 --> 00:53:07,440
and the police following Antiquated laws

1201
00:53:14,470 --> 00:53:10,260
were compelled to pay him surreptitious

1202
00:53:17,450 --> 00:53:14,480
visits to quote trap and quote him

1203
00:53:20,270 --> 00:53:17,460
however years of police experience

1204
00:53:22,670 --> 00:53:20,280
served to awaken the Montreal police to

1205
00:53:24,890 --> 00:53:22,680
realities and they now often finish

1206
00:53:28,670 --> 00:53:24,900
their official visits with unofficial

1207
00:53:31,370 --> 00:53:28,680
sittings when they arrived disguised he

1208
00:53:35,210 --> 00:53:31,380
used to sense their masquerade and tell

1209
00:53:36,829 --> 00:53:35,220
them who they were giving them their

1210
00:53:39,170 --> 00:53:36,839
official numbers

1211
00:53:42,170 --> 00:53:39,180
there are now quite a number of

1212
00:53:45,049 --> 00:53:42,180
Montreal's D's which I guess means

1213
00:53:48,770 --> 00:53:45,059
detectives who look upon an instruction

1214
00:53:52,130 --> 00:53:48,780
to visit Hudson as a night out for

1215
00:53:53,030 --> 00:53:52,140
themselves whilst formally observing the

1216
00:53:56,750 --> 00:53:53,040
law

1217
00:54:00,530 --> 00:53:56,760
and that story rings a bell I wonder if

1218
00:54:05,390 --> 00:54:00,540
that's crossed our session here in Trove

1219
00:54:07,849 --> 00:54:05,400
before possibly it has in a trove

1220
00:54:10,130 --> 00:54:07,859
about police psychics

1221
00:54:13,010 --> 00:54:10,140
now there are other items on this

1222
00:54:16,849 --> 00:54:13,020
wonderful page this fascinating page but

1223
00:54:19,490 --> 00:54:16,859
we'll end with the center item in a big

1224
00:54:24,470 --> 00:54:19,500
in a big box here right in the center of

1225
00:54:27,109 --> 00:54:24,480
the page Perth psychic research Society

1226
00:54:29,270 --> 00:54:27,119
the second meeting of the Perth psychic

1227
00:54:32,750 --> 00:54:29,280
research Society

1228
00:54:35,809 --> 00:54:32,760
men's Branch was held in the society's

1229
00:54:37,250 --> 00:54:35,819
headquarters 900 Hay Street Perth on

1230
00:54:40,190 --> 00:54:37,260
Tuesday evening

1231
00:54:43,970 --> 00:54:40,200
when through the instrumentality of Mr J

1232
00:54:47,690 --> 00:54:43,980
Higgins some interesting manifestations

1233
00:54:49,910 --> 00:54:47,700
of spirit mental presence of both the

1234
00:54:53,089 --> 00:54:49,920
Departed and the living were given to

1235
00:54:54,589 --> 00:54:53,099
members an experienced member related an

1236
00:54:58,370 --> 00:54:54,599
interesting case of personal

1237
00:55:01,490 --> 00:54:58,380
Clairvoyance he described how he saw in

1238
00:55:04,730 --> 00:55:01,500
a psychic Vision a man sitting on a

1239
00:55:07,130 --> 00:55:04,740
veranda shoot himself when he went home

1240
00:55:09,829 --> 00:55:07,140
that evening he was greeted with the

1241
00:55:13,309 --> 00:55:09,839
inquiry quote have you heard the news

1242
00:55:15,349 --> 00:55:13,319
then quote it was the news of an

1243
00:55:18,530 --> 00:55:15,359
acquaintance who had shot himself

1244
00:55:22,430 --> 00:55:18,540
quote did he shoot himself on The

1245
00:55:25,849 --> 00:55:22,440
Veranda end quote ask the homecomer no

1246
00:55:28,130 --> 00:55:25,859
he shot himself in West Perth they told

1247
00:55:30,710 --> 00:55:28,140
him nevertheless the details were

1248
00:55:32,510 --> 00:55:30,720
published in the west Australian the

1249
00:55:34,190 --> 00:55:32,520
following morning they showed that the

1250
00:55:38,030 --> 00:55:34,200
suicide had not shot himself in West

1251
00:55:40,910 --> 00:55:38,040
birth but at his home in his own suburb

1252
00:55:44,329 --> 00:55:40,920
on The Veranda just as the second

1253
00:55:46,730 --> 00:55:44,339
sighter had seen him asked whether this

1254
00:55:49,430 --> 00:55:46,740
could be described as telepathy the

1255
00:55:52,970 --> 00:55:49,440
member replied that telepathy was only a

1256
00:55:56,030 --> 00:55:52,980
name for Spirit Vision both in and out

1257
00:55:59,089 --> 00:55:56,040
of the flesh man saw at times with

1258
00:56:01,490 --> 00:55:59,099
Spirit eyes and telepathy between the

1259
00:56:04,670 --> 00:56:01,500
living was no different to Vision

1260
00:56:05,390 --> 00:56:04,680
between the so-called dead and the

1261
00:56:08,870 --> 00:56:05,400
living

1262
00:56:10,849 --> 00:56:08,880
man was from birth a spirit and the fact

1263
00:56:13,910 --> 00:56:10,859
that the multitude did not see

1264
00:56:16,010 --> 00:56:13,920
spiritually or psychically was because

1265
00:56:19,130 --> 00:56:16,020
they had not developed their own spirit

1266
00:56:23,390 --> 00:56:19,140
faculties and saw only material objects

1267
00:56:26,089 --> 00:56:23,400
with material eyes it was described to a

1268
00:56:28,849 --> 00:56:26,099
meeting it was decided to meet again at

1269
00:56:31,490 --> 00:56:28,859
900 Hay Street on Thursday February 20th

1270
00:56:35,569 --> 00:56:31,500
at 8 pm meantime the secretary Mr

1271
00:56:37,490 --> 00:56:35,579
Higgins agreed to be at headquarters 900

1272
00:56:40,849 --> 00:56:37,500
Hay Street Perth each Friday afternoon

1273
00:56:44,450 --> 00:56:40,859
to meet visitors and answer inquiries

1274
00:56:51,609 --> 00:56:44,460
where available authentic literature

1275
00:56:58,730 --> 00:56:56,150
and how we might think what what fun it

1276
00:57:03,109 --> 00:56:58,740
would have been to visit those offices

1277
00:57:04,430 --> 00:57:03,119
all the way back there in 1941 but

1278
00:57:07,190 --> 00:57:04,440
particularly I think it would have been

1279
00:57:08,470 --> 00:57:07,200
interesting to visit the uh the home of

1280
00:57:13,069 --> 00:57:08,480
this girl

1281
00:57:15,230 --> 00:57:13,079
mentioned Alice Bell Kirby a 13 year old

1282
00:57:18,170 --> 00:57:15,240
American Girl as it's written here in

1283
00:57:21,740 --> 00:57:18,180
the paper who seemed to have great

1284
00:57:22,849 --> 00:57:21,750
trouble in keeping her tables still

1285
00:57:25,150 --> 00:57:22,859
[Music]

1286
00:57:28,150 --> 00:57:25,160
foreign

1287
00:57:30,530 --> 00:57:28,160
[Music]

1288
00:57:31,790 --> 00:57:30,540
this page for yourself and there are

1289
00:57:36,670 --> 00:57:31,800
more stories

1290
00:57:38,930 --> 00:57:36,680
you uh you can do that just go to Trove

1291
00:57:42,950 --> 00:57:38,940
trove.nla.gov.eu and search for psychic

1292
00:57:45,410 --> 00:57:42,960
science or Alice makes her own psychic

1293
00:57:49,430 --> 00:57:45,420
Wonderland or you can just look for the

1294
00:57:53,329 --> 00:57:49,440
guardian and Lead date is uh February

1295
00:57:56,950 --> 00:57:53,339
the 14th 1941. it doesn't take too long

1296
00:57:59,990 --> 00:57:56,960
to uh to discover this page

1297
00:58:02,930 --> 00:58:00,000
there's also another story here about

1298
00:58:05,750 --> 00:58:02,940
Perth family's gift in Perth there are

1299
00:58:09,049 --> 00:58:05,760
many families in whom the psychic Gifts

1300
00:58:12,049 --> 00:58:09,059
of Clara audience Clairvoyance Etc may

1301
00:58:14,270 --> 00:58:12,059
be described as hereditary though in

1302
00:58:16,790 --> 00:58:14,280
most cases the so-called Sixth Sense

1303
00:58:19,809 --> 00:58:16,800
remains undeveloped because its

1304
00:58:22,750 --> 00:58:19,819
possesses are not aware of its utility

1305
00:58:25,549 --> 00:58:22,760
for everyone to read on that page

1306
00:58:29,210 --> 00:58:25,559
and it just goes to show as I've just

1307
00:58:33,170 --> 00:58:29,220
discovered that when you go to Trove you

1308
00:58:35,790 --> 00:58:33,180
never know what you might find

1309
00:58:54,230 --> 00:58:35,800
thank you foreign

1310
00:58:58,910 --> 00:58:56,089
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1311
00:59:00,890 --> 00:58:58,920
Zone podcast this week and all the weeks

1312
00:59:03,950 --> 00:59:00,900
you listen to it and thank you very much

1313
00:59:06,170 --> 00:59:03,960
to my continuing sponsors and supporters

1314
00:59:08,510 --> 00:59:06,180
and the new sponsors and supporters out

1315
00:59:11,049 --> 00:59:08,520
there and if you'd like to contribute to

1316
00:59:13,430 --> 00:59:11,059
the show be a supporter just head to

1317
00:59:15,650 --> 00:59:13,440
skepticzone.tv and click the PayPal or

1318
00:59:18,170 --> 00:59:15,660
patreon link

1319
00:59:19,549 --> 00:59:18,180
now as you heard during the episode I

1320
00:59:23,450 --> 00:59:19,559
will be appearing at the Western

1321
00:59:25,789 --> 00:59:23,460
Canadian reason conference 2023 in

1322
00:59:27,710 --> 00:59:25,799
Calgary it's been a very long time since

1323
00:59:29,930 --> 00:59:27,720
I've really visited Canada I was there

1324
00:59:33,170 --> 00:59:29,940
in 2007 but only for a couple of hours

1325
00:59:36,109 --> 00:59:33,180
while I flew into Vancouver then went by

1326
00:59:38,150 --> 00:59:36,119
taxi to the uh the port to take the

1327
00:59:41,809 --> 00:59:38,160
cruise with James Randy all those years

1328
00:59:43,010 --> 00:59:41,819
ago but as many of you know uh I used to

1329
00:59:46,970 --> 00:59:43,020
live in Canada

1330
00:59:50,089 --> 00:59:46,980
but that was the 1960s so it's been a

1331
00:59:51,710 --> 00:59:50,099
very long time and of course I was uh a

1332
00:59:54,170 --> 00:59:51,720
toddler at the time so I don't remember

1333
00:59:57,890 --> 00:59:54,180
too much about it what a treat it will

1334
00:59:59,450 --> 00:59:57,900
be to once again properly visit Canada I

1335
01:00:02,150 --> 00:59:59,460
wonder if any memories will come

1336
01:00:05,390 --> 01:00:02,160
flooding back like the maple syrup and

1337
01:00:06,170 --> 01:00:05,400
the pancakes and my favorite drink root

1338
01:00:10,130 --> 01:00:06,180
beer

1339
01:00:12,770 --> 01:00:10,140
the website is we can reason godcom all

1340
01:00:13,930 --> 01:00:12,780
the details are there and as you heard

1341
01:00:17,450 --> 01:00:13,940
in the little

1342
01:00:20,510 --> 01:00:17,460
uh promo the Western Canadian reason

1343
01:00:24,289 --> 01:00:20,520
conference will be on the 5th to the 6th

1344
01:00:27,049 --> 01:00:24,299
of May in Calgary Alberta Canada

1345
01:00:31,130 --> 01:00:27,059
coming up on next week's Show Adrian

1346
01:00:33,289 --> 01:00:31,140
Hill looks at UFOs on Wikipedia and the

1347
01:00:36,289 --> 01:00:33,299
Trove segment is the first part of a

1348
01:00:38,809 --> 01:00:36,299
two-parter about the adventures of Sir

1349
01:00:41,030 --> 01:00:38,819
Arthur Conan Doyle the creator of

1350
01:00:43,130 --> 01:00:41,040
Sherlock Holmes who was really into

1351
01:00:47,270 --> 01:00:43,140
spiritualism

1352
01:00:49,970 --> 01:00:47,280
and fairies no not the skeptical Fairy

1353
01:00:54,650 --> 01:00:49,980
Godmother angel from the internet he was

1354
01:00:57,049 --> 01:00:54,660
into what he thought were little tiny uh

1355
01:00:59,690 --> 01:00:57,059
five inch tall fairies that used to

1356
01:01:00,650 --> 01:00:59,700
dance around English Gardens strange but

1357
01:01:02,870 --> 01:01:00,660
true

1358
01:01:05,870 --> 01:01:02,880
but for this week

1359
01:01:08,270 --> 01:01:05,880
internet fairies and all this is Richard

1360
01:01:13,370 --> 01:01:08,280
Saunders signing off from Sydney

1361
01:01:19,990 --> 01:01:15,410
you've been listening to the skeptic

1362
01:01:22,309 --> 01:01:20,000
Zone podcast please visit our website at

1363
01:01:25,490 --> 01:01:22,319
www.skepticzone.tv for show notes

1364
01:01:29,030 --> 01:01:25,500
contacts and to access the back catalog

1365
01:01:30,950 --> 01:01:29,040
of episodes going back to 2008.

1366
01:01:34,549 --> 01:01:30,960
you can follow the skeptic Zone podcast

1367
01:01:36,890 --> 01:01:34,559
on Twitter at skepticzone visit our

1368
01:01:38,150 --> 01:01:36,900
Facebook page or leave a review on

1369
01:01:40,430 --> 01:01:38,160
iTunes

1370
01:01:43,670 --> 01:01:40,440
you can also support the skeptic Zone

1371
01:01:47,089 --> 01:01:43,680
via patreon or PayPal the skeptic Zone

1372
01:01:48,770 --> 01:01:47,099
podcast is an independent production the

1373
01:01:50,870 --> 01:01:48,780
views and opinions expressed on the

1374
01:01:53,210 --> 01:01:50,880
skeptic zone are not necessarily those